A Small Protest of Former New Kadampa Tradition’s Members


September 6, 2008, the New Kadampa Tradition Center, Bodhisattva Centre Brighton, offered an Open Day for the general public.

Two former NKT members, one of them a former NKT teacher, engaged in 5 hours of information giving for people visiting Bodhisattva Centre for their Open day.

These person stood outside the Centre and gave visitors a handout explaining that the Buddhist tradition they were visiting organises protests against the Dalai Lama.

Here is a short documentary.

Handout by former NKT members

Information about Bodhisattva Centre
(We thought you might like to know)

The Buddhist Centre you are about to visit is one of the larger residential Centres of the New Kadampa Tradition. www.kadampa.org You may notice that the publicity for this Open Day does not mention the NKT or any Registered Charity information about the Centre.

If you commit to study with the NKT at Bodhisattva Centre you will only study the books of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The original texts they are based on are also available in many other Buddhist traditions.

You will be taught to meditate on ‘absorbing the Guru’ ( who is manifest in this life as Geshe Kelsang Gyatso) into the depths of your mind and to reinforce this meditation with the protection of Dorje Shugden in the practice of Heart Jewel (daily) or Wishfulfilling Jewel (daily) and Kangso (monthly). This practice is the ‘essence of Kadampa Buddhism’ as taught by the New Kadampa Tradition.

The Dalai Lama has requested, in order to maintain peace and harmony in the communities of all Tibetan Buddhist traditions, that practitioners of Dorje Shugden should not attend his teachings or view him as their Spiritual Guide. He has not banned the practice. This recommendation does not affect anyone in the NKT. The NKT has always emphasised its complete independence from Tibetan society even though the lineage of the teachings is given as Tibetan.

However, members of the NKT, under the name of the Western Shugden Society (WSS) http://www.westernshugdensociety.org/ have organised and paid for frequent and persistent demonstrations all over the world against the Dalai Lama accusing him of not being a Buddhist, of lying and hypocrisy.

The NKT is not allowed, under British Charity Law, to engage in political activities such as public protest. Some of the prominent members of the WSS who have been protesting are Gen Kelsang Khyenrab, Deputy Spiritual Director of the NKT, Kelsang Rabten, National Spiritual Director of NKT Australia, Kelsang Pema (the main public spokesperson) personal assistant to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso for more than 8 years, and the current resident teachers of Bodhisattva Centre and centres of the NKT in Bexhill, Huddersfield, Wales, London, etc as well as many residents of this NKT centre in Brighton.

In the last two years many high level teachers of the NKT have left under suspicion of sexual misconduct including Gen Samden Gyatso, the previous long term Deputy spiritual director of the NKT as well as at least two Resident Teachers of Bodhisattva Centre.

So why is the WSS protesting against the Dalai Lama’s advice at a time when Tibetans are being imprisoned, tortured and murdered for trying to preserve their own culture which includes these precious Buddhist teachings?

Is the WSS creating difficulties for the Dalai Lama in the public arena in order to deflect public awareness of internal difficulties in the NKT under the pretence of protecting the practice of Dorje Shugden practitioners?

You can contact INFORM, a research group at the London School of Economics that studies new religious movements for information on the NKT. http://www.inform.ac/

For more information you are also welcome to email: timetobehonest@ftml.net

Handout by the Bodhisattva Center Brighton’s Resident Teacher

You may be interested to visit the following websites for further information about our Centre, our tradition – the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT), the WSS:

Bodhisattva Buddhist Centre website: www.meditateinbrighton.com NKT website: www.kadampa.org Western Shugden Society website: www.westernshugdensociety.org And www.newkadampatruth.org for information about the NKT and our side of the story!!

If you would like to speak about any of this, or if you have any concerns you are very welcome to contact me on 01273 732917

Kind regards,
Kelsang Nyingpo (Resident Teacher)

Comment by Bodhisattva Centre TTP student

the demonstrating against the Dalai Lama was felt like

  • ‘an empowerment’
  • ‘huge purification of the world’.


  1. Manjushri's Sword says:

    Tenzin, I know the people who were involved in this ‘protest’.

    If they think the NKT is so evil, why are they happy for their children to visit their friends at Bodhisattva Center and stay over?

    It’s really a storm in a teacup – you can do better than this mate!

  2. I don’t think Tenzin or anyone else who doesn’t live in England can know the background of the people involved. These pamphlets were made by ex-members in the UK so they would know their personal reasons for distributing pamphlets. I am not very familiar with the inner workings of the NKT, so can’t comment much, but Tenzin certainly may have knowledge about the critique in the pamphlet of the Guru and Shugden practices and think they are valid.

    I don’t see how there could be any complaints about this as this was a respectful, legal and quiet protest. Much tamer than those of the WSS. The language of the pamphlets was also much less loaded than those of the WSS. It should be expected, with NKT so heavily involved in protesting (even if it is in an “ad-hoc” coalition) that their detractors might have something to say on a smaller scale.

    In the end, that’s how these things usually stack up. Once these sort of protests start, there will usually be counter-protests, and I’m sure this must have been expected.

  3. To ‘Manjushri’s sword’:

    We don’t use words such as ‘evil’.

    We permit our children to socialise with people whose religious and political outlook we may disagree with as we feel that our children’s wishes to socialise with children they have grown up with and love, should be respected.

    We are only informing the public so that people can make an informed decision as to where they wish to practice Dharma.

    Are the NKT so ashamed of what its practitioners do in the WSS that they really don’t want any visitors to know about it?

  4. D of Tunbridge Wells says:

    Manjushri Sword,

    How low can you go in your defence of the indefensible?

    I am the father of one of the children in question and my daughter has been brought up to be non judgmental of other people and their beliefs. She knows only too well what has been going on at Bodhisattva centre for many years now and she can separate these things from her friendship with her best friend.

    The question is, with your wisdom, why can’t you?

  5. Dear All,

    I was the step out of the discussion, but as it has no moved so much closer to home – the bottom of the drive – it’s difficult not to comment.

    In general people have the right to protest against the NKT/WSS if they wish and we should respect their right to do so, as the New Kadampa Truth blog site has also said today.

    However, I have some doubts – do Carol and her friend really have a constructive agenda? The WSS didn’t just launch into protests. It first contacted the Dalai Lama and asked him to stop his discrimination against Dorje Shugden worshippers, and requested him to make this commitment. It was only when no response was received that protests were started. The aim of the protests is to stimulate awareness and discussion that will eventually lead to a solution to the problem.

    At no point have we discouraged people from attending teachings from the Dalai Lama. At the first protest in American Pema had to encourage one man with a party of 20-30 school children to attend the teaching – he was so put off by what he heard that didn’t want the kids to hear the teaching. Pema didn’t want him to get in trouble by not taking them to the talk that they’d already paid to go to.

    Really we all have to look at our motivation. I would claim that our motivation is to heal a rift that has taken place within the Tibetan community, and that it is both compassionate and constructive. No one in the know is claiming that such a rift doesn’t exist. In fact Tenzin and Khedrup are adding to our understanding of the complexity of the conflict by giving examples of Dalai Lama supporters who have been persecuted by misguided Dorje Shugden devotees. As far as I am concerned this is just a further reason to try to open discussions between the sides as soon as possible so that a constructive outcome can be achieved.

    I am moving out of Brighton in a couple of weeks, but if Carol and her friend would like to meet up with me before then to discuss the nature of their grievances and what they hope to achieve, then I would be very happy to do this. You are welcome to ask Tenzin for my e-mail, or give him yours to pass on to me.

    I hope you got something from your small demonstration, and am glad that you didn’t end up getting wet!

    Best Wishes,


  6. Dear Adam,
    I and other people addressed GKG about his doings, he either never replied or he insulted the person addressing his or her concerns. Sometimes he gave fuzzy spiritual statements. He didn’t accept any view different from his own. NKT leadership is not able to communicate. They can only communicate their own point of view and bring people into line with this, like the Chinese Communist Party or the SED in East-Germany. For me and others they appear very close-minded and most of them appear to be fanatics; and what one learns from this is: it is better for the own psychic health not to discuss with them.

    It is the right of ex-members to protect others to step in such a destructive organisation. What Carol or I do fits also into your portray: “The aim of the protests is to stimulate awareness and discussion that will eventually lead to a solution to the problem.”

    But how to discuss with people who think they are very right and the other is very wrong because they do not support the party line? This is not possible. There is no basis for discussion with narrow minded or close minded people with such a hardened perspective. It was GKG himself who forbade discussion by order to close all NKT internet groups.

    In East-Germany we called people like the leadership of NKT and some fundamentalist Shugden followers “Betonköpfe” (concrete-heads) because you couldn’t discuss with them. their head was fixed and hardened like concrete, no space for another perspective.

    We just ignored them or felt helpless, some got angry. There is a reason why WSS/Shugden followes slogans and propganda agree so much with the propaganda of the Chinese Communist Leadership: behind both is fundamentalism and extremism, an extreme narrow minded or one-sided perspective, just “concrete-heads”. You may be an exception.

    Best wishes, TP

    Regarding NKT leadership’s repressive policies
    The trials to control the opinions of members are many, they include the rewriting of the own history etc. However, regarding the activities of Carol you have to put this also into perspective.

    Here GKG’s order to undermine open discussion when the things in NKT got worse due to sexual abuse:

    Geshe-la wrote this:

    “Some small group in our NKT society engage in meaningless activity on the internet, not only Sangha, some lay. This is incorrect. We are Kadampa practitioners, Kadampa Teachers. Why are we enjoying meaningless activity, discussion? We can have a meaningful discussion with pure practitioners or senior practitioners, Teachers. There is no meaning in talking about silly things publicly on the internet.

    Instead, make meaningful discussion with our pure practitioners, senior Teachers. Please give my message to the individuals of this group.

    Stop this kind of actions. Gen-la Khyenrab, give my message in email or writing. Stop meaningless discussion on the internet. If you wish, do meaningful discussion with senior Teachers or pure practitioners, or meaningful discussion with your Teacher.

    No meaning engaging in silly question and answers on the internet. Please Gen-la Khyenrab, pass my message. I am telling you for your purpose and our society’s purpose. In this way, keep individuals and society pure and show very good example. “

    This was published in the German NKT forum. But it was not accepted by anybody. Someone asked for instance: why are thoughts of sentient beings meaningless activities? Later he compared the advice to ask your NKT teacher with his experiences of the communists. Than the forum head closed the forum.

  7. Dear Tenzin,

    Geshe-la speaks for himself and I speak for myself. I respect Geshe-la but since I have completely different karma to him I don’t try to emulate his example in all respects. I think that this would be silly, inapporopriate, and imposssible.

    I am not an official representative of NKT, WSS, or even Bodhisattva Centre, but I’m happy to talk to anyone who wants to talk to me about any of the activities taking place in the name of these organisations. If the discussion appears to be going no where I may suggest that it be terminated, but I would always choose to make the offer initially anyway, so that no one can complain that this opportunity has been denied to them.

    If you check out the New Kadampa Truth blog you will see that this is now advertising itself as a forum whereby people can report any grievances they have with the NKT, and receive a response to them. I am extremely pleased about this development, and hope that it will go some way towards providing a remedy to what some people perceive as the concrete headedness of the NKT!

    It is quite obvious though that people will only be happy with this if they have at least some positive minds towards the NKT. Those who see only faults in the NKT will manage to find fault with even this. Even so, I would still be willing to talk to them if they wished (see above).

    Best Wishes,


  8. Adam,

    I don’t find fault in your wanting to have a discussion. I only wish your mindset was more common in the WSS people who post here.

    AS for the NKT, I don’t know enough about the organization to speak on it with much authority. All I can say is there must be major problems as its most vocal critics are ex-members. If NKT wants to address their concerns, great. But sometimes it seems like they want to deflect them (from what I’ve seen at the truth site, which is about the extent of my knowledge). As a show of good faith, it might be nice if they took down their “wanted list” of critics, as personalizing debate doesn’t do any good.

  9. Dear Adam.
    There is no positive change in NKT.

    Change starts by recognizing the own faults.
    One has to face the own faults – change starts by acknowledging the own faults, by asking oneself: What made I wrong, what made we wrong that we are now in such a situation?

    Why are there so many people unhappy with us? Why is there so many criticism my ex-members? We wished to make people happy, why got they unhappy and report about harm?

    Such a process of self-introspection needs time and silence, honesty and courage, it needs also self-esteem.

    Brushing the problems under the carpet or starting instead a time and money consuming campaign to denounce or accuse others, especially respected Buddhists and even academics, is not a sign of such a positive change or self-introspection.


    Ex-members see the NKT websites and activities as ‘damage control’.

    If you’re a person who likes to listen, who aims to understand, I would like to suggest to you to contact the Email address and to ask the person what the concerns are that she has.

    Until now you discussed mainly with me or Khedrub, this person may be a person who has another perspective.

    Best Wishes, Tenzin

  10. Dear Adam,

    I bumped into you shortly after you came to Brighton when Thogme was resident teacher. I knew at that time full well of the activities of Lodro and Thogme but not wanting to destroy your faith or anyone else’s new to the centre I kept it to myself and the people in the know. I believe that at that time you had some faith in Thogme.

    Due to their ‘activities’ I was put in a position whereby I had to leave the centre for my own sanity.

    Some time later they disrobed and are now living together.

    The recent ‘protest’ at the bottom of the drive was not a protest at all. The people involved had no intention of disrupting the center’s open day, merely to inform the public of the activities of the centre, it’s resident teacher, the ordained Sangha and the residents.

    You see – anyone coming to the centre for the first time would assume that the ordained sangha and the Dalai lama were one and the same in the same way that if you saw two policemen you would assume they were the same. The reason why they felt that they had to do this was simple – the publicity for the open day was misleading in that it only referred to the centre as a Buddhist centre in Brighton and the website ‘meditate in Brighton’. No one new to the centre would have any idea that this was an NKT centre. It certainly was not an oversight because i have seen other publicity from the centre without reference to the NKT. It is just the same with the link (sorry no link) between the NKT/WSS.

    So it just makes me laugh when you point me to an NKT Truth web site. Tenzin’s post above says it all.

    The bottom line in all of this is the fact that as far as Bodhisattva Centre is concerned there have been so many, lies, half truths, cover ups, rewriting of history in the past and we are talking years that the only credible way it seems to continue is to have a completely new community every few years who know absolutely nothing about what has gone on. Those who know where the bodies are buried or who have questioned the running of the centre and head office have been systematically removed and a search for new blood has to be undertaken.

    I fully support the actions down the bottom of the drive. Unless Bodhisattva Centre and the NKT come clean as Tenzin has indicated then the people of Brighton deserve some transparency in the way the NKT in Brighton operate. I have watched so many people attracted to Buddhism come to the centre and then leave with a bad feeling that something has to change. Too many good people have been wasted due to the NKT cherishing only it’s own reputation and not the welfare of the students (and teachers) it grooms.

    I do not post the following lightly but after so much time silence does not seem to be an option anymore. It comes from a response to someone representing the NKT on a blog. The first part is a quote from their post.

    Lionheart, in post 62 you said ….

    “Therefore, NKT has acknowledged mistakes, apologised, made changes to improve, and has tried to meet with people who feel they have been treated badly”.

    This sounds like a transparent, responsible and healthy organisation at work.

    Maybe the same parallel universe as before.

    You see, until the latest round of protests against the Dalai Lama instigated by the NKT and the so called smears against this ’stainless tradition’ began to surface on the internet – the NKT operated with a transparency akin to a brick wall.

    To illustrate this i will tell you a little story, coming directly from my own experience.

    It was a widely held view that Lodro and Thogme had a very close and exclusive relationship, both within the community in Brighton and more widely in the way they conducted themselves at festivals. Due to his popularity and charisma and peoples faith in him, most people would not believe that they were having a sexual relationship, even though they stayed together in a private flat within Bodhisattva Centre (separate rooms of course).

    Anyone that questioned the inappropriate nature of their relationship (and i don’t mean in a sexual way) was labeled as deluded and the fault coming from their own mind.

    Some time later when Lodro was asked to teach in London (due to the previous teacher disrobing) Thogme was appointed the resident teacher. This did not go down that well in the community as Thogme was always using her connection with Lodro as a way of exercising her power and never socialised with the community. However we were told as a community and I was told directly by Lodro that Kelsang Gyatso had appointed her directly.

    So the community and myself included accepted the decision and tried to develop faith in our new resident teacher.

    Time went by and to cut a long story short the problems did not stop.

    More and more we were not allowed to question any descisions made by Thogme and all the time she would say that if we questioned her we were questioning Lodro and Samden. No debate was allowed – only faith. Returning from festivals she would tell us how happy Kelsang Gyatso was with the centre.

    Things came to a head when the admin director and the assistant admin director approached the financial director of the NKT at a summer festival with information regarding the misappropriation of centre money by Thogme for her and Lodro’s benefit. She was concerned that as a director of a charity she was personally liable for sanctioning financial requests.

    They were told that this was the right thing to do and it would be looked into. On returning from the festival the admin director was immediately removed and the assistant admin director was sent to another centre (in a manner of speaking).

    The way it worked was like this…. The NKT’s financial director talked to Khyenrab, who in turn talked to Thogme who talked to Lodro and who then advised Thogme to remove the admin director – which she did.

    What followed was a systematic campaign by Thogme under instruction from Lodro to remove the most senior members of the community who questioned Thogme’s leadership of the community in any way whatsoever. A hit list was drawn up and subtly people were discredited.

    I decided i could not continue and walked away. I left silently, not wishing to destroy the faith of those people new to the centre or who knew of what happened but wanted to stay.

    Two years later Lodro and Thogme disrobed and are now living together. I have left out a lot of details of this story because my intention in disclosing this information is not to discredit the individuals concerned. They are different people now leading new lives.

    My intention is to show that either Kelsang Gyatso knows only too well what goes on and is more concerned with the public reputation of his resident teachers than in the welfare of his students or that he is removed from what goes on and the decisions made by senior NKT officials are without his knowledge but always in his name.

  11. The Lady at the Bottom of the Drive says:

    Dear Adam,

    After seeing the official WSS photo’s and videos of yourself shouting at HHDL i really do not feel inclined to meet you face to face.

  12. Dear Adam,

    Only one person who was given our leaflet did not go up
    to visit the Centre. All the others did. The person who did not go and visit already knew the Centre and already had many doubts about it. Therefore we did not stop anyone from going for refuge to Bodhisattva Centre.

    You imply that informing people of the activities of the WSS would make people ‘discouraged’ from attending teachings.
    If the majority of students and residents at Bodhisattva Centre are protesting against the Dalai Lama, what reason is there to hide this from visitors? Why should the truth
    discourage them?

    You may note that on our handout there are only links to
    NKT/WSS websites. No links to anything else. So why should this discourage visitors?

    Our intention is that those who decide to attend teachings at Bodhisattva Centre are aware of what the members of the Centre are doing. An informed decision.


  13. Dear Carol,

    thank you for your posting. I do honestly have considerable sympathy for you. I will do a copy of your posting, print it out, and then try to go through it point by point.

    I will try to compose a suitably reflective response and then get back to you with it.

    I think it is better we communicate this way anyway as it allows more room for reflection.

    Best Wishes,


  14. Hello

    I find it interesting that in the booklet given out at the bottem of the drive at Bodhisattva centre it mentions

    ”Is the WSS creating difficulties for the Dalai Lama in the public arena in order to deflect public awareness of internal difficulties in the NKT under the pretence of protecting the practice of Dorje Shugden practitioners?”

    During the protests in the mid 90s related to the Dalai Lama’s ban on Shugden the NKT came under heavy criticism and scrutiny. Geshe Kelsang’s name was dragged through the mud and a great degree of doubt and apprehension arose within and outside of the organisation. Why then, having seen the damage done in the 90s, would getting involved this year in similar activities be a way to ”deflect public awareness” from the NKT? I would have thought that it would have served to increase scrutiny which, indeed , it has.

    I have read in severel places this idea that Geshe-la and others associated with the NKT have decided to demonstrate against the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government in exile in order to somehow deflect attention. To me this line of reasoning makes no sense as it would be logical and obvious that standing up, openly criticising and speaking out against the Dalai lama and co would naturally draw attention not deflect it. Especially in light of what happend in the 90s.

  15. Dear LightMind,

    If demonstrating against the Dalai Lama is such a good thing to do, why isn’t this made evident to people visiting NKT Centres and to the schools, and organisations where you rent rooms to teach?

    The attention of the protesting members of the NKT has certainly been drawn away from the internal difficulties of the NKT!

    The cumulative physical, spiritual and psychological effect of up to 12 hours of group ‘chanting’ laying blame on the Dalai Lama is to reinforce unquestioning faith in the viewpoint of the NKT.

    As you well know, after intense experiences like this, the awkward questions aren’t voiced, such as ‘why do long term practitioners fall off the path so frequently in the NKT?’ And ‘if the Dharma ‘works’ why is it that the highest teachers chosen by Geshe Kelsang break their basic moral discipline?’

    Could you give statistics to show that the fall out from NKT ordination is less than in other western Buddhist traditions?

    As you know, most people who experience distress within and through leaving the NKT don’t talk about it publicly. People outside the NKT know nothing of all of this.

    The demos keep the NKT practitioners themselves in line.

  16. Dear lightmind,

    I think your reasoning that NKT might be wanting to hide from public attention rather than flaunt itself to it with regards to the past is misguided.

    It is clear to me that NKT did much to distract its own followers from the Samden scandal, and then Lodro and Thogme, and so on – like the closure of Losang Dragpa centre for spiritual impurity, when many more impurities took place at, for example, Manjushri KMC. Not to mention Bodhsisattva centre and Madhyamaka … all still open and presumably not impure.

    It is highly likely that NKT is distracting *it’s own followers* with the renewed protests, not the public in general. Little information was officially given re Samden’s acitivities, and now the focus is elsewhere – exactly what they might want, except the public face of NKT is now suffering. But I think there is more about wanting to control the minds of the people they have than have a good public image, as even other Buddhist groups have a bad impression of the organisation already.

    People who join NKT have usually not researched it first; the informed are likely to stay away. Those already in the group, then, must be kept there by dissuading them not to look too deeply into the things that are going and have gone so badly wrong. What better than a new campaign against the Dalai Lama with its own websites and videos to keep people from making their own enquiries into other areas?

  17. Dear All,

    The NKT is not protesting against the Dalai Lama. Shugden practitioners are protesting against the Dalai Lama (if this is their wish.) This is the reason why the NKT do not publicise details of the individuals protesting against the Dalai Lama as this would confuse people who may think that the NKT as an organisation is protesting. Indeed there are people within the NKT who are protesting against the Dalai Lama but there are also people within the NKT who are not protesting against the Dalai Lama.
    The motivation of Shugden practitioners for protesting against the Dalai Lama is compassion.
    What I hear here is a lot of pain coming up from peoples past experiences regarding Lodro etc. I hope you can all heal and that we can move on to benefit all living beings with love compassion and wisdom. (No matter what your practise is!)

    With love
    Drima x

  18. Dear Drima,
    thank you for your comment. It’s of course correct that there are NKT members who do not partake the protests. However the protests were initiated and are performed, led and organized by NKT. I wonder if you are not aware of this?

    Geshe Kelsang wrote to his students:

    “[…] To stop this evil action, as the representative of the Western Shugden Society, I personally will organise demonstrations against the Dalai Lama directly. I requested Kelsang Pema and Kelsang Thubchen to do this job for me and they have accepted. Please help Pema and Thubchen with whatever they need. With much love and prayers, Geshe Kelsang Gyatso”

    I wonder where there is compassion in these actions. For me neither the verbal statements nor the physical actions of WSS/NKT express compassion but hostility, aggression and insensibility, and sadly they harm others, the Tibetans and NKT.

    There are also some benefits in the protests. NKT members are brought together again after the internal scandals and some NKT members woke up and started to question NKT and left NKT. Also the public is more aware of NKT.

    It could be that you personal feel compassion. Your kind words at the end of your comment express compassion. But that you personally feel compassion does not mean that all the participants do feel the same. When we performed the protests 1996-98 we talked often about our compassion and added quickly how bad and uncompassionate the Dalai Lama is. Our “compassion” was rather based on a wrong perception that the Dalai Lama is “the enemy of the Buddhadharma” “who harms all sentient beings”, and we didn’t recognize how this wrong judgement induced in us hostility, anger, pride and self-righteous thoughts and actions because such a conception is a concept that evokes feelings of hatred. In our belief “we are right and the Dalai Lama is wrong” we were like steamrollers knocking everybody down who did not share our vision and we were like missioners trying to convince the whole world how it is “deceived” by the Dalai Lama.

    It were later, after the protests ceased, when most of us recognized how aggressive we were and what negative thoughts had entered our minds. We were completely mentally poisoned and there was only verbal or pseudo-compassion left. Some nuns confessed their hate towards the Dalai Lama personally to me, and I recognized aversion and hate it in my own mind and in the speech and comments of other NKT practitioners. Maybe you check what really is going on within NKT and the own mind.

    However, thank you very much for your compassion, love, and good wishes you expressed at the end of your comment., t

  19. Tungchenma says:

    I believe Geshe Kelsang is as hurt as the Dalai Lama that the Chinese have caused so much pain in Tibet but he has decided to take a Lojong stance on the issue. In the tantric way is using poison in a practical way to spread the nectar of spiritual principles to as many people as he can. Geshe Kelsang’s main mission in life is stop suffering as best he can. He is not some crazy dictator. He is a small wizened old frail man who bursts into a grin or a laugh at every opportunity. He is very protective of all sentient beings and that includes the Dalai Lama. But I think he feels that Buddhism should have no boundaries and not be reduced to a national or political issue. He does not take “sides” he would never act in such a general way as that. He deals with every issue as it arises with it’s individual karma. Geshe believes that constant public conflict with the Chinese is not helping Tibetans but increasing their suffering. He also will not hate a nation or be as general as to deal with people like that. He is trying very hard against a lot of difficult conditions to give people something that eases their time in samsara. But NKT is like every other organization it has it’s scandals and difficulties. That’s samsara folks… the reason we were attracted to Buddhism in the first place… :)

  20. Dear Tungchenma,
    very interesting point of view.

    As you said these are your beliefs, I can only accept them. However, for me the believes you are expressing are not based on facts but mere imaginations. In Buddhism it is important to base beliefs on facts.

    I pick up some point to express my pov:

    It looks like he is able to “bear” the tremendous suffering of the Tibetans (whom he debts everything) under the PRC in Tibet and the hard situation of his folk in exile by being silent and not supporting them while when the NKT, his organisation, is criticised he seems not to “take a Lojong stance” in bearing it, and is very active to write Open Letters and to complain to the Newspapers that the reputation of (his) NKT is harmed.

    I see no Lojong stance in this nor does this look like of being “protective of all sentient being”, nor are the protests he asks his students to organize against the Dalai Lama have a taste of Lojong or being “protective of all sentient beings”. I think, these actions are not even helpful to Buddhism nor NKT nor his students nor himself.

    If he feels as you guess “Buddhism should have no boundaries and not be reduced to a national or political issue” why he removed all Buddhists texts in Manjushri Institute and replaced them by his own texts and made policies that Tulkus (who are higher then him) are not allowed in NKT, and none of his well-educated fellow Geshes are invited to teach the Dharma in NKT centers? He set up so many boundaries and policies to separate NKT (his students) from the Buddhist world, especially his own Gelug school, that his followers became completely dependent on him, his books and his organisation, and all of them are completely separated from the masters of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition, and their heirs, the Ganden Tripas and all the Gelug masters.

    If it comes to Shugden and attacking or putting down the Dalai Lama I see clearly “taking sides”. I wonder what makes you not seeing this. Also the “wisdom” of being silent with respect to the suffering of Tibetans is not applied when it comes to issues he is very interested in, like his NKT or protector Shugden, then he has another “wisdom” and gets very active and issues forth noisy and aggressive public protests which denounce the Dalai Lama and accuse him of being a Liar and Hypocrite and he seems to have no thought of this could harm Tibetans, the Tibetan cause or “increasing their suffering”…

    A pot of contradictions.
    However, thank you for sharing your beliefs.
    I wish you all the best.

    May you meet always holy masters and may you recognize their amazing qualities.

  21. WSS and Shugden worshiper are so critical others and quick to point fingers.

    For instance Osel Hita Torres, a Spanish boy reincarnate of Lama Yeshi renounced his life as monk the WSS website was buzz with how his deviation from Shugden has resulted in this disaster.

    This is not the first time that Lama or reincarnate have disrobed himself.

    Surprisingly they are very silent about the present Trijang rinpoche a staunch propagator of Shugden is no longer wearing a proper monks robes.

  22. Lobsang Tsering says:

    I see you have ads on your page. Contact me for help funding or hosting so they are not needed

    • Yes, this is the problem with WordPress. I have to pay that the adds are removed and since I pay yearly $48 for custom design and mapping I decided to save the money for getting rid of the adds. I’ll contact you.


  1. […] also: A small protest of former New Kadampa Tradition’s members Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Western Shugden Society – recent […]

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