by tenpelAugust 1, 20081:35 pm

Master Atisha’s Advice – Are these New Kadampa Truths?

»True Kadampa Truths«

According to the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT), NKT cherish these values:

“Always be peaceful and harmonious with others”

“Although we wish for happiness our ignorance leads us to engage in non-virtuous actions, which are the main cause of all our suffering. Also, if we do not cultivate and maintain a good heart our selfish motivation destroys harmony and good relationships with others. We have no inner peace and no chance to gain pure happiness. Without inner peace, outer peace is impossible.”

see Modern Kadampa Buddhism – Brochure

At the same time NKT/WSS offer noisy public protests, raising their fists, yelling, shouting and disturbing the public peace and the Dharma teachings of H.H. the Dalai Lama – exaggerating events and facts – and libel one of the most respected spiritual Buddhist master of this world by naming him:

“The 21st Century Buddhist Dictator” who would be the sole source of certain perceived problems.

The entire Tibetan community have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and are experiencing a very dangerous situation. The source of all these problems is you. Through your negative policies, the Kagyupas are divided into two groups, and they have lost their trust, peace and harmony, and their common spiritual activities. Gelugpas are also divided into two groups 1) those who follow your view believing that Shugden is an evil spirit, and 2) those who believe that Shugden is a Wisdom Buddha, and have subsequently lost their trust, peace and harmony, and their common spiritual activities and live in a dangerous situation. The source of all these problems is you.

This statement is not correct at all. Looking in the history and researching the Shugden issue unbiased brings to light that it is the practice of this controversial ‘protector’ and how it was used by adepts and the views they propagated in that context which is the main source of quarrel, split, schism, sectarianism and fear. This is also true in the context of the schism at the Manjushri Institute (UK, Ulverston), the former crown jewel of FPMT, now the head center of NKT.

Especially Nyingmapas and Kagyuepas fear Shudgen worship and reject it. Also the majority of the Gelug school reject Shugden worship and the Sakyapas see Dorje Shugden as a lower protector of minor importance. (see Dorje Shugden, A Spirit of the XVII Century, Provocations of the Gyalpo and Wikipedia: Dorje Shugden’s Enlightened Lineage or How to Make ‘History’) It is also misleading to claim H.H. the Dalai Lama had split the Kagyue School. The Kagyue School has split itself; and only when H.H. the Dalai Lama was asked directly about his opinion by two persons in charge of the recognition (H.E. Tai Situ Rinpoche and H.E. Gyaltsab Rinpoche), H.H. the Dalai Lama expressed his opinion. (see The Karmapa Controversy)

On top on these false or contorting allegations NKT/WSS doesn’t hesitate to belittle or libel the Dalai Lama by stating further:

All these horrible situations have developed through the power of your evil actions. This is our valid evidence to prove that you are not Buddhist. Because of this, we also believe that you are the saffron robed Muslim. Throughout your life you have pretended to be a Buddhist holy being giving Buddhist teachings that you have stolen from Trijang Rinpoche. By doing this, you have cheated people throughout the world. In summary, it is clear that your real nature is cruel and very evil.

Does NKT/WSS wish to crucify the Dalai Lama?

Are these allegations in accordance to the own teachings which NKT claim to cherish so much?

According to NKT’s translation of “Advice from Atishas Heart”

Beware, offending a holy being is worse than dying, therefore be honest and straightforward.

Since all the happiness and suffering of this life arise from previous actions, do not blame others.

Do not look for faults in others, but look for faults in yourself, and purge them like bad blood.

Do not contemplate your own good qualities, but contemplate the good qualities of others, and respect everyone as a servant would.

Always keep a smiling face and a loving mind, and speak truthfully without malice.

If you talk too much with little meaning you will make mistakes, therefore speak in moderation, only when necessary.

If you engage in many meaningless activities your virtuous activities will degenerate, therefore stop activities that are not spiritual.

and

Avoid all haughty, conceited, proud, and arrogant minds, and remain peaceful and subdued.

Have no hatred for enemies, and no attachment for friends.

Do not be jealous of others’ good qualities, but out of admiration adopt them yourself.

Avoid activities that are said to be meritorious, but which in fact are obstacles to Dharma.

Avoid friends who cause you to increase delusions, and rely upon those who increase your virtue. This you should take to heart.

This is the advice that the holy being Venerable Atisha gave to Venerable Jang Chub Ö.

Address to NKT

Please NKT/WSS if you wish to be taken seriously as authentic Kadampa Buddhists take these advice of Atisha to heart. Are you practising what you preach? Are you following Buddha or Devadatta?

Open Letter to NKT by an anonymous Bhikshu

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and members of the NKT.

You have correctly pointed out that monks have been expelled from their monasteries in South India for breaching Monastic Rules in relation to the worship of Shugden and you loudly protest your indignation around the world championing the cause of human rights.

But contrary to your false assertions HH the Dalai Lama has publicly and repeatedly said people are free to propitiate the deity if they so choose.

Here is the solution that will unmistakably show who is sincere.

NKT here’s the challenge!

Go to India, buy land and build a monastery for all the monks and nuns who worship Shugden. Build houses, clinics and schools for all those lay people you claim are oppressed by the Tibetan Government in Exile and denied their basic human rights.

Now is the time for compassionate action not empty words.

Prove you are sincere and want to right the terrible wrongs.

Come on NKT – show the world who you really are.

Are you serious or not?

11Comments

Add yours

1

Khedrup on August 1, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Reply

Here is a list of the charitable projects of the FPMT, the NKTs targeted competition:

Animal Care
Animal Liberation Sanctuary
Maitri Animal Care Programme

Community Centers
FPMT Mongolia Dolma Ling Community Center provides:
One meal
Basic medical attention
Educational programs to 50 or more underprivileged people of the surrounding district in the outskirts of Ulaan Baatar five days a week

Essential Education Schools
Tara Redwood School
Maitreya Project UE School
FPMT Charitable Projects
Health Care Projects

MAITRI Charitable TrustMAITRI Charitable Trust

Shakyamuni Buddha Community Health Care Centre

Hospice Services (in over 5 countries)
Liberation Prison Project (worldwide)

Socially and Ecologically-focused
Shen Phen Thubten Choeling
MAITRI Trust Village School Program

Tibetan Welfare
Yeshe Norbu Appello per il Tibet

The Theravada (or as the NKT would say the “small vehicle” Monastic Sangha in Thailand runs projects such as these:

http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102239508.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CYZ/is_4_32/ai_n16418558

NKT, why not put your money where your mouth is and start really practising giving fearlessness and giving love to those really in need. Rather than picketing a man who has funded most of the Tibetan refugee projects through his work – The Dalai Lama.

It is time to take a long look at what your organization has really done to benefit those less fortunate.
2

practitioner on August 11, 2008 at 3:41 am
Reply

Dear Tenzin,
Geshe Kelsang Gyatso doesn’t force anyone to follow his views. People are free to participate in NKT centers or not. Those monks expelled from Sera Mey Pomra Kamtsen however were not given a choice as to whether they want to follow the Dalai Lama’s views or not. The expelled monks do not view the Dalai Lama as their teacher and in fact have received the commitment to practice Dorje Shugden from other teachers. So the Dalai Lama is forcing his view onto others… or of course be forced out of the monastery. Very nice…

You might say that is his right. It is most certainly his right to make changes where appropriate. But when practitioners have taken commitments to their guru to practice Dorje Shugden, is putting pressure on these practitioners to abandon Dorje Shugden interfering with their reliance on their guru? and thereby harming their spiritual life? Is it right for someone to decide for someone else which commitments of their guru are valid and which aren’t?

And please don’t criticize Trijang Rinpoche and his commitments as not being valid as that would invalidate both the Dalai Lama’s ordination and your own.

This particular use of the vote stick referendum is highly problematic for this reason; the losers have to break their commitment. This is surely not what Buddha intended since any Buddhist should be free to chose who their guru is. The current use of the vote stick referendum therefore is not valid because it is harming those living beings who have commitments to their guru to do this practice and is therefore breaking the refuge vow not to harm any living being.

Above you say “Especially Nyingmapas and Kayguepas fear Shudgen worship and reject it.” This is a lie because these very
Dorje Shugden monks that have been expelled from Pomra Kamtsen are being cared for in Tibetan Camp Number Four headed by His Eminence Penor Rinpoche of Nyingmapa who openly welcomed the monks and provided living necessities such as milk and so on from the camp’s shops and outlets. Camp Number Four is populated by a majority of Nyingmapas who had no hesitation to help Gelugpas worshipping Dorje Shugden. So where is the fear you are talking about. Perhaps you are guilty of the exaggerating tendencies you are accusing others of.

If you do not allow this post on your website but delete it as mere NKT propaganda when in reality they are the heartfelt opinion of a sincere practitioner then I would have to say that you are doing the very thing that you are criticizing the NKT of, thereby making you a hypocrite.

comment
I respect your thoughts, however my feeling is, they are the typical outcome of NKT’s misinformation.

Firstly Shugden worship is something which is feared by many and it was used for violent and sectarian purposes. All this is against Buddhist principles and it is more than appropriate to remove that practice from the monasteries, if the majority wishes this. The majority of monks and nuns (including me) do not like to live at a place where such controversial practice – seen by most as being spiritual harmful – is performed. So the majority has the right to ask the minority to stop it or to leave their dwelling place.

More over HHDL does not force his view onto others, others accept the view and reasoning of HHDL on Shugden as wise and acceptable. It is the personal freedom to accept or to reject his views. Those who wish to practice Shugden con do but not in the established Gelug monasteries. Nobody is forced to follow or to accept HHDL’s views — unlike in NKT where all people have to accept and to follow what their single “root Guru” GKG says, and if they don’t GKG removes them personally, e.g. Lucy James and others. In NKT there is no choice at all, but in Tibetan Buddhism there is. If you still claim NKT members have the choice maybe you’ll tell me how members of NKT can choose their Guru? There is only one Guru: GKG. There is no choice at all unlike in Tibetan Buddhism.

I think NKT people project to much their own situation onto the Tibetan situation, lacking proper and reflected knowledge of the Tibetan society and the function of the Dalai Lamas. (For an unbiased view about HHDL/Tibetan society I suggest to read Pico Iyer’s Open Road).

Rejecting Shugden does not make any other teaching or the Vinaya (ordination) invalid. Shugden is a somewhat newfangled practice not taught by Buddha or Indian Panditas, not even taught by Tsongkhapa. In 2500 years of Buddhism it appeared 360 years ago based on rather strange events like the killed person Dragpa Gyaltsen. Such controversial stuff can be rejected, no problem. Also for those who have commitments regarding Shugden there are ways how to keep them while reducing the practice. HHDL has given such advises too. Although HH the Dalai Lama and Trijang Chogtrul Rinpoche disagree in the Shugden issue both keep respect for each other. Also this shows there are different approaches. As the highest Tulku of the Gelug school it is HHDL’s job to deal with such issues and to offer advise. The monasteries can follow his advised or not. However, in general – but not in all cases e.g. the Bhikshunis ordination – they follow not due to pressure but due to their respect for the spiritual insights and spiritual authority of HH the Dalai Lama.

About the stick referendum see:
https://thedorjeshugdengroup.wordpress.com/2008/08/11/the-stick-referendum-against-buddhist-and-democratic-principles/

It is no lie at all that Nyingma and Kayguepas fear Shugden, I have talked to them and I asked many high masters from both schools and it is exactly as I stated: they fear Shugden and most see him as a demonic, very harmful force. Kayguepas say: ‘You should not even speak his name.’ This was confirmed so many times to me without any opposition that I am completely confident about this statement. It is a fact not a lie. Especially the former head of the Nyingma school, HH Mindrolling Trichen Rinpoche, was a very strict opponent of Shugden. There is not even one high Nyingma lama I have asked or heard of who is not against Shugden. So, I doubt very much if his successor, HH Penor Rinpoche, supports Shugden monks, maybe in a social way but not in practice. I do not exaggerate this, I read enough research papers and investigated it through many years personally by asking many high lamas, researchers and practitioners of Nyingma and Kagyue school.

I conclude with the statement of one of my Nyingma teachers, HE Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche, head of more than 25 monasteries in Buthan and an eminent Nyingma lineage holder: “Most of the Nyingmas, Kagyues and Sakyas believe that Shugden is a demonic force, if you practice it you will first get many disciples, then many money and then many problems.”

Please stop blackmailing me. It is my right and choice, based on my understanding, what I publish here and what not. Thank you for your thoughts. I wish you all the best, Tenzin.
3

practitioner on August 11, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Reply

Dear Tenzin,
Thank you for leaving my post, I appreciate and respect your willingness to discuss these subjects in an open manner and I wish you all the best as well. There is just one aspect of your response that I wish to discuss further, please humor me.

I have to say that people can leave the NKT if they don’t like it there. That is their freedom. But the NKT is Geshe Kelsang’s tradition; its his house, isn’t it his perogative to make changes as he sees fit (much in the way you are saying the Dalai Lama has the right to make changes in the monastery). This point is important because it shows that you are holding the NKT to a double standard.

By the way Kadam Lucy James wants to be in the NKT. She was attending Geshe-la’s teachings last week receiving instructions from her teacher, her guru and that was her choice. If she didn’t like the NKT nobody is forcing her to be there. You used to be in the NKT and are now studying under other teachers so you yourself are living proof that one has freedom of choice.

You said in your response:

“unlike in NKT where all people have to accept and to follow what their single “root Guru” GKG says, and if they don’t GKG removes them personally, e.g. Lucy James and others. In NKT there is no choice at all, but in Tibetan Buddhism there is.”

If you assert there is choice in Tibetan Buddhism then I would refer to the Dalai Lama’s speech:

“I have meditated and considered (my decision to put aside the Shugden) at length in my soul and spirit before coming to the right decision”, he said. People have killed, lied, fought each other and set things alight in the name of this deity. These monks must be expelled from all monasteries. If they are not happy, you can tell them that the Dalai Lama himself asked that this be done, and it is very urgent.” (This quote is in video format at the following link: http://www.france24.com/en/20080808-dalai-lama-demons-india-buddhism-dorje-shugden

The statement *must be expelled from all monasteries* doesn’t sound like freedom to me. It sounds like a purge. I would question the Dalai Lamas ethics in making this statement since he is not leaving any room for reconciliation with Dorje Shugden practitioners. He is notably not saying they should set up separate monasteries as you have been saying in this forum but rather that they should be expelled from all monasteries.

Where is the tolerance, the willingness to dialogue, and the compassion he teaches?

Could you imagine the world we would live in if we applied this reasoning in the above quote to Muslims, Christians, or Jews. We need to provide room for all spiritual views even the ones we don’t like. I understand you don’t like the NKT and I respect your position as you had a negative experience with the NKT but we must learn to live together in harmony and provide freedom for everyone to do their cherished spiritual practices.

If HH Penor Rinpoche, supports Shugden monks, in a social way but not in practice then why doesn the Dalai Lama not do the same? Where is the protection for these monks? Where is their home? If they are financed by the Chinese as you say then why do they not have the resources to build their own monastery?

I hope we can come to the conclusion that these Dorje Shugden monks although you don’t like their practice, are deserving of respect, basic human necessities, and a home where they can carry on their monastic tradition.

comment
Hi!
I agree, NKT is GKG’s ‘tradition’. He can do with it what he likes as long as his followers accept and he and NKT do not announce it as being something else.

But to label his ‘tradition’ as the “pure tradition of Je Tsongkhapa” while offering in NKT only three pages of Je Tsongkhapa’s 18 volumes; abandoning the Vinaya; lacking 5 of the Six Kadam texts; lacking the Sixteen Drops etc. to claim GKG’s tradition would be Atisha’s Kadam school or Je Tsongkhapa’s school is a spiritual fraud or plain confusion. As long as GKG would honestly say: “This is my own school, it is my tradition” there is no problem. But he claims it is Je Tsongkhapa’s or Atisha’s tradition and this is not correct. Similar, his followers can not wrongly claim to be authentic Buddhist monks or nuns, if they do this it is either a spiritual fraud or confusion/ignorance. Nobody with Buddhist knowledge and Buddhist practice will accept NKT monks and nuns as authentic Buddhist monks and nuns because the lack the Vinaya.

It is true that people can leave NKT physically without problems. I never said something different, I left also NKT. The double standard is: GKG says e.g. in the public followers can also go to other centers or listening Dharma teachings of other teachers or reading text by other authors but when close followers do it he either threatened them he will not be their Guru any more if they do or he takes other means (like indirect speech or building up fears to “mix” “pure Dharma” and thereby destroying “this (his) ‘pure tradition'”) to subdue his followers to follow his direction. Of course Lucy James wishes to follow GKG, however GKG removes every RT from his centers who does not follow his policies 100% or who becomes too popular or opposes even his views. Lucy James is just one popular example of the radical policies and autocrat system set up by GKG, there are other examples as well like Gen Tharpa (Spain), Björn Claussen (Swiss) or Dechen (Germany)… In the context of NKT Lucy James fall from grace because she was only 99% devoted to him, her removal is a warning to all other NKT RT to follow GKG 100%. This NKT system is very different from what HHDL does or what freedom there is in Tibetan Buddhism or Tibetan society. There is a big difference!

Actual GKG is oppressing his followers. He is the sole autocrat or dictator; unlike NKT/WSS claims this is no projection it is just a fact. However due to different reasons I restrain to label Geshe Kelsang Gyatso as an oppressor or Buddhist dictator, however “autocrat” is very correct I think, based on the facts.

GKG and NKT installed a set of tools based on pseudo-Dharma or surfaced Dharma up to wrong views which bind people mentally to NKT and making them fear to leave the NKT. Therefore I accept the labels of “cult” or “brainwashing” regarding the NKT system. In general the more deep someone was involved, the more time it takes to get “deprogrammed”. Someone who followed 20 years NKT, will probably never leave it, the system of NKT manipulates the mind on a very deep level, so the longer someone was involved the more difficult it will be to leave. I can not say there is freedom of choice in NKT because there is self-deception and other-deception deeply rooted in NKT and there is a fundamental lack of honesty, confusion and fear to leave NKT or GKG. This is no freedom at all. There may be a hypothetical freedom. An anonymous former NKT member said in a Buddhist magazine’s interview: ‘who follows the system NKT will gradually loose all his freedom and this is the opposite of what Buddha has taught.’ I can only confirm this statement.

Regarding the expelled monks: According to a witness, the Abbot of Sera monastery asked HHDL for his advise when Shugden monks had pushed up events there. Before they had a “live and let live approach”. The dynamics in the monasteries seem to have developed in a very speedy and also potentially violent way. Its up to the monasteries to resolve that issue. I don’t know if HHDL has suggested to expell them, beforehand they could live there. But of course that issue is an important one. It will be hard to judge this issue without knowing all the background. Regarding the freedom: HHDL may be quite strict in that issue (probably for good reasons) but who knows GKG/NKT and HHDL/Tibetan tradition knows also that between GKG’s autocrat system and the Tibetan society and monastic system – based on the Vinaya – is a difference like between a frog and a lion. NKT sees almost every thing from a narrow minded frog’s perspective, not understanding what the lion is doing. In Buddhism there are also teachings on this, they can be found also in the Jataka Tales of Buddha’s former lives as a Bodhisattva.

Regarding the quote from France 24, indeed this sounds strange and somewhat narrow minded. I will watch the TV contribution next time. But I know that HHDL is not narrow minded at all and that he said many times people have freedom to practice at their own places (as NKT has too! – although they claim wrongly the opposite via WSS) and that for the purpose to not corrupt the monastery places by harmful practices he is happy that they are not performed there any more. Moreover HHDL and his representative said different times they can set up their own places. You can not get a full picture by watching one TV documentation this is impossible. We don’t know what else he said and what material and statements France 24 didn’t use. They have to cut down the statements and probably they lack the sensibility and knowledge of the complexity to that issue. So it is natural that this contribution may be very incomplete and left many questions or points open.

To understand the wish to remove Shugden practice from the monasteries (the practice it is what is opposed not the beings practising it) one has to understand that high Gelug, Nyingma and Kagyue masters say that Shugden has a very negative effect for the person performing that practice – is is seen as spiritual harmful – even very harmful. So to remove it from monastic places where people strive for internal freedom is ok and just consequent I think – as long as the majority of monks and nuns wishes this. And they wish this and voted for this. As Lama Zopa Rinpoche mentioned also in the past Shugden practice was forbade at one (or some) monasteries, so this is no invention. It is also no invention that Dalai Lamas oppose Shugden worship. I think this is very clear.

Protecting others from being spiritual harmed is compassion, it is the Buddhist practice of “giving fearlessness”. The harm I could witness personally and I know many cases and stories about this harm, that’s why I and those who see it likewise, see HHDL’s actions as compassionate and a matter of spiritual urge. Because Shugden practice is based on sectarianism which will manipulate you to hesitate to listen also to teachings of other Buddhist schools (up to not touching Nyingma texts) it is the Shugden worship which leads to a lack of religious freedom. I experienced this on my own following different Shugden lamas. After quitting Shugden worship and leaving them, since that I have personal freedom before I had not. For me this is no theoretical issue, I know it first hand. I followed and finally investigated both sides of the coin.

I don’t know if HH Penor Rinpoche supports Shugden monks in a social way, it was you who claimed that he is helping Shugden monks. I said I doubt this very much and suggested maybe they are supported socially by him. Until now you showed me no evidence for this claim, so I doubt all the claims regarding HH Penor Rinpoche. The position of the Nyingma school is very clear, due to the Shugden issue they denied to be a part of the TGIE until this issue is resolved (see Mills’s research). All Nyingmapas I know reject and oppose Shugden worship very much!

I respect every human being, I didn’t claim that Shugden monks are supported by Chinese (if I did, please correct me). Although there is this saying, I actually don’t know. But I heard in the France 24 contribution Kundeling lama said that he supports China – I know Kundeling Lama – so what do you expect what people believe when Shugden lamas say in public they support China?

Shugden and non-Shugden followers can live in harmony. From my own and other’s experiences I/we feel that most Shugden followers are very fanatical, narrow minded and unable for open dialogue. It is almost impossible to find dialogues with fundamentalists. I think the best is both do their practices at different places. As NKT has it still done and the monasteries in India do from now onwards.

Nobody expects from NKT to support non-NKT members or that they do social work for others. Why NKT expects that the monasteries support expelled monks? Others and me who left NKT received neither a “thank you” from NKT for our hard work nor any support. NKT does not even support the victims of the sexual abuses of their teachers and NKT successors. May NKT sweep first the own house instead of distracting themselves by looking to the neighbour and throwing their own dirty laundry over the neighbours’ fence and then shouting and demonstrating against the own projections and misdeeds.

Finally I am interested in dialogue with Shugden followers if this dialogue has a purposeful reason.
Sorry if my responses sound a bit harsh and unfriendly but in general I am disillusioned with NKT/Shugden followers. So I put not too much effort in such dialogues. However thank you for your trial. Best Wishes. Tenzin

Sera Monastery (India): Situation for the Expelled Monks and the Monks abiding in Sera (August 2008)
The WSS/NKT claim of not caring for the expelled monks is also incorrect as I found out…

According to a monk from Sera Monastery: “During the worst of crisis, Mey was almost closed by the police and a Sojong at Lachi was delayed for +4 hours by the police, some in riot geat. The Pomra’s wanted to come and had the called the police to help. Anyhow, it’s done now but it was a SERIOUS crisis that lasted many months. Those who have not pledged still live in Sera but have “established” a monastery, separate of Sera Mey. They do there own debates, prayers, food and school. They kept the buildings of the old Kangsten and the new one in building, plus, well, almost everything…! We don’t care and, we don’t need to got anymore to those horrible night prayers that went well into the night. We may have less pocket money but the one we have is clean. Could not be more happy.”
4

practitioner on August 14, 2008 at 2:59 am
Reply

You know Tenzin if I had your experience of the NKT I might have left too! It sounds horrible, but I’m not sure how those conditions came about. It sounds like there were some intense personalities involved and that your view of Geshe-la is influenced by the disciplinary action he took against your teacher. But when you say ‘Therefore I accept the labels of “cult” or “brainwashing” regarding the NKT system’ you are talking about 800 centers worldwide with hundreds of different teachers and I think your actual experience of Geshe-la and the NKT is far more limited than that. Yours is one perspective on the NKT, only one. If we were to have accounts of the NKT Summer Festival by the 2500 people who attended you would get some very different perspectives. I would beware of feeling validated by others who have also had bad experiences into then grasping onto that as the truth. We must all come to terms with the emptiness of inherent existence. How can you judge that others aren’t receiving benefit since you can’t see their pov?

FYI, some NKT students were attending the Dalai Lama’s teachings and as they came out they would come over and hang out with those of us who were demonstrating. No problem. Many students that I know in the NKT do take courses with other teachers such as Thich Nat Hanh and Robert Thurman so I think your assesment is exaggerated based on your negative experiences. That is not to say that you didn’t see some intense NKT students and teachers during your tenure. Many criticisms are valid but NKT being a cult is not one of them.

At the center I am at, people come and go all the time with no fuss… Many of the things you describe I can totally see how those things could happen but I wouldn’t project that onto Geshe Kelsang since there are many beautiful experiences people have at his centers with him and his teachers.

I personally have had a wonderful experience of the NKT and although you might not consider it a valid Buddhist tradition I feel compelled to ask you to at least respect that from our point of view we are trying to do something positive and not destroy NKT’s reputation by writing every criticism you can think of.

And by the way NKT doesn’t equal WSS.

Four comparative points:
Is there NKT that is not WSS. Yes
Is there WSS that is not NKT. Yes
Is there something that is Both. Yes
Is there something that is neither. Yes

You study logic therefore you must accept that the NKT is not the WSS. Sure there is overlap but you can’t equate the two. The NKT is much bigger these days than when you were around…

comment
Instead of arguing lets make a step backwards:
Experiences and how one sees things is very individual, it depends mainly on the mind. On the other hand experiences and perspectives are are also dependent arising. How things are judged depends much on the mind and its abilities but also it depends on the basis of what is judged. Is the mind able to perceive the investigates phenomenon correctly? Does the mind perceive blue as blue or blue as yellow? Does the mind perceive a lie as a lie or as a truth? Does the mind perceive a conventional truth as a conventional truth or as a lie? Is the mind distorted regarding reality or does the mind sees the reality just as it is?

Therefore due to different knowledge, discriminating intelligence or based on ignorance, jealousy, hostility, pride etc. one may judge NKT/WSS in this or another way. The same is true in how one judges Shugden and HHDL or GKG and Kundeling Lama and the events in India or the actions of WSS/NKT/GKG.

Analysis and investigation is the main key for a person seeking the truth or enlightenment or just something good and to protect oneself from being misled. To be able to do this a person following the Mahayana Dharma should – according to Aryadeva/Chandrakriti/Tsongkhapa – 1. be unbiased / nonpartisan 2. have intelligence to discriminate wrong teachings from correct teachings 3. have diligence towards the aim.

Understanding this it is natural that there are different recognitions on different subjects. This is also true in how one sees Shugden/WSS or HH the Dalai Lama and the events in India. So it is up to you to check your own judging if it is correct or incorrect, half-truth, untruth, neither this nor that, a projection, a truth? Checking this is your own task, it is your spiritual life, you are responsible for it. It lays in your hands. This is also true for me. It is obvious that we differ in how we see and judge things.
5

shugdenpa on September 16, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Reply

This is for “practitoner” but I doubt Tenzin will post it!

Tenzin had very little if any real experience with NKT as he followed the person now known as Lama Dechen and not Geshe Kelsang.

Tenzin is very clever at not giving the full facts of his case.

Somewhere else I read Tenzin said he felt unprotected in NKT- not surprising – he wasn’t really IN the NKT!

To be IN the NKT means to come under the loving care and protection of the glorious Gyalchen Dorje Shugden, an enlightened protector whose time has come.

As you may know the NKT is very successful in spreading pure Dharma and helping people to solve their daily problems. But of course there are people who’s minds are not open and so they cannot find the help they need. This is important to bear in mind when reading Tenzin’s blog.

comment TP
what a fun. i give and gave the full facts. it is nkt who is dishonest and puts a spin on the facts not me 🙂
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Khedrup on September 17, 2008 at 10:37 pm
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“Somewhere else I read Tenzin said he felt unprotected in NKT- not surprising – he wasn’t really IN the NKT!”

With all due respect, would Geshe Kelsang have trasmitted the NKT ordination to Tenzin-la if he hadn’t really been “in” the NKT. Is it easy for outsiders to the tradition to receive ordination?
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Tenzin on September 17, 2008 at 10:53 pm
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Khedrub the comment by Shugdenpa is already misleading.

Firstly I have and had enough experience in NKT. I attended all their spring and summer festivals, and I was a great fan and student of GKG’s books. My main teacher and person I fully relied on – up to dreaming of – was GKG, not Dechen. It was also GKG who made me believe I should trust Dechen. Personally I felt not like that, finally I followed what he said at the festivals: that his teachers are good teachers we can rely on. He wrote also a long-life prayer for her and we prayed daily. “May all of her wishes be fulfilled”. I brainwashed myself with the methods of NKT and GKG to rely on a teacher I felt I shouldn’t rely to. All the NKT methods I used to bring me to that point to rely on her. So finally I fulfilled GKG’s wishes in relying on Dechen and I saw both as a Buddha. However both Buddha’s came into clinch with each other. Very interesting…

More over I am able to discriminate what is my personal story, what Dechen’s story and what NKT’s and GKG’s story. I do not mix up the different issues here. Those who do not believe me may read the comments in the NKS how similar the experiences and structures are all over the world within NKT.

Secondly I never said “I felt unprotected by NKT”.

And although it is true that Dechen was a bit special she was put into that position by GKG himself and he ignored all complaints about her and replied to someone who complaint: “if you would have Bodhicitta, you would see the Bodhicitta in your teacher”. He said we can rely on his NKT teachers.

Dechen was also not that unique in NKT. Other NKT teachers also abused – even sexually – their students, and NKT covered it up until it became finally public. Dechen is a child of the system NKT, a victim as well as any body else, including GKG. Of course she set up her own cult, a cult in a cult, but from where she learned the mechanism of cults and the Dharma-brainwashing methods?

Both GKG and Ani Dechen have my full compassion and love. I have no bad feelings to them. It is just sad for me what development they took; I see it as a great teaching what dangers there are on the path and what could happen to me. Sometimes I ask myself what the result of their actions will be. I try to keep good thoughts to them, maybe we can help each other in the future. (Of course I didn’t think like this some years ago.)

How do all these people became so misled and all their good potential and talents corrupted?

I think it is due to Shugden. The system is so sick and self-deceptive, it’s just sad. From my understanding this self-deception and the dishonesty and deceiving of others is due to Dhogyal. Just leaving their places (Manjushri Institute or Schloss Sommerswalde) set my mind at ease. People underestimate the validity of the warnings about Shugden’s negative influence.

It is so sad, once GKG was seen as a very good teacher and was praised by the wise. Now he is scolded by the wise and he himself abandoned them – up to slander them. It is just sad. What a pity tragedy!

Personally I see all, including GKG & Dechen, as the victims of Dhogyal’s negative force. I do not rejoice what happens to them and what they do. I pray for them and wish I could help them.
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Tenzin on September 19, 2008 at 10:00 am
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To add one point to what I said above:

Regarding the Qualification of NKT teachers
According to my understanding and the understanding of other individuals, e.g. ex-members but also academics, NKT has a real problem with the qualities of their teachers. Due to their felt self-importance and felt purity the main policy is to spread world wide – also referred to as ’empire building’.

For this aim teachers – at all costs – are needed. Although there are some rules about it, in general every NKT ordained who subscribes to NKT programs is suited to teach others, even when this person feels himself insufficient to do so, has little experience or is very new in the Dharma.

With such a policy it is no wonder that even persons suffering on borderline or depression become resident teachers. One of them who portrayed himself as a “borderline looney” who “a lengthy psychotic episode, followed by a deep depression” got as a response to his problems Geshe Kelanng Gyatso’s answer: “just rely on Dorje Shugden” and “I understand you have become ill, but your practice is helping millions of people.”

So if anybody wishes to criticize Dechen or other Resident Teachers of NKT they have to put it in context with NKT’s ’empire building’ policy which is that the aim to be present world wide is far more important than personal growth, privacy and time for introspection. The New Kadampa Survivor’s forum is a testimonial to this.

Other sources stated these about the qualities of NKT teachers:

According to Bluck, these study programmes have been widely criticised as rote learning.[63] Waterhouse found that disciples in Bath were expected to memorize texts in full and were invited to teach through their “ability to function as a channel” for Geshe Kelsang, rather than by the extent of their own knowledge.[64] Kay found the role of the NKT teacher described as a ‘channel’ for transmitting Geshe Kelsang’s teachings “without colouring them with their own personal ideas”, one saw himself as “a talking book” where “Geshe Kelsang’s teaching come through your mouth”[65], and another NKT teacher explained that an individual’s lack of experience or ‘realisations’ is not an obstacle because “all you need to become a teacher is to have faith in Geshe Kelsang and know your Dharma a little bit”.[66]

In a 1998 manual for the NKT Teacher-Training Programme, the students were encouraged to: “internalise Geshe-la’s books so that we can quote liberally from them, word for word.” Students were advised that “if it is found in the works of Geshe Kelsang it is completely reliable”, and further that “the more devotion we have to our Guru the more qualified we are as a Teacher. Every NKT Teacher must give exactly the same explanation, otherwise the NKT will disintegrate… Therefore this generation of Teachers must try very hard to come to complete consensus as to what is the correct interpretation of every single section of every one of Geshe-la’s books.”[67]

see: http://info-buddhism.com/#Teachings.2C_spiritual_programs.2C_teachers_and_religious_observance_days
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shaza on September 21, 2008 at 10:32 am
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GKG lashing out at other traditions:

“The way to progress through and complete the fourteen grounds of Highest Yoga Tantra is gradually to practice and complete the practices of the two stages – generation stage and completion stage. These days many people talk about Tantra, but there are few who teach the two stages. There are even teachers who never mention the two stages and yet claim to be teaching something even higher than Highest Yoga Tantra! I wonder what sort of Buddhahood these so-called Tantric Masters attain? It must be a very deluded kind of Buddhahood! Rather than following these ‘modern Buddhas’, we would do much better to emulate the great Yogis of the past, such as the eigthy-four Mahasiddhas and especially the highly renowned Nagarjuna.

There are predictions that as times become more impure people will become increasingly attracted to false Dharma and begin to show contempt for pure Dharma. False Dharma will flourish widely and it will become more and more difficult to meet pure Dharma. Since these predictions seem to be coming true, we are extremely fourtunate to have met the pure and authentic teachings of Je Tsongkhapa.” (p.54-5, Tantric Grounds and Path, 1994)
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jaco on March 5, 2009 at 3:36 pm
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Just shut up and concentrate on your own practice..Both sides…..!It is harming dharma….!
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Tenzin Peljor on March 5, 2009 at 8:19 pm
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Dear Jaco,
sorry, I think I am going to disappoint you. I don’t shut up when people are misled and their mind is finally turned against the Dharma, against genuine Buddhist teachers, and against the Sangha.

I think, it is good to study origin statements made by KG to get certainty if he can be relied upon or not. In addition to Shaza’s quote I add now even more of KG’s own words. Is there something wrong in doing this?

»The Dalai Lama has been very successful in destroying this ancient religious tradition. He is very clever at destroying the spiritual practice taught by his root Guru Trijang Rinpoche, but he is very ignorant and foolish at achieving Tibetan independence. This should be his main job because he is the Tibetan political leader, but in this he is paralyzed, without any direction. Everyone can see this situation now. The Dalai Lama is using these three reasons, repeating them over and over like a weapon to destroy the spiritual practice taught by his root Guru. He is continually saying these things, and people believe him, and their minds are gradually changing. In reality he is misleading people in order to fulfil his wishes. His main wish is to destroy the practice of Dorje Shugden and then to change the entire Gelug tradition. He wants to integrate all the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism into one so that the leaders of the other traditions will no longer have a role and he will become the only leader of Tibetan Buddhism. In this way he can easily control the spiritual life of all practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism. I know this is his wish; he has been working towards this for many years. Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, “Re: RELIGIOUS ISSUES – related to DORJE SHUGDEN and the DALAI LAMA”, 01/12/1997«

(made by KG on Google Groups)

Nowadays the practice of the Vinaya has almost died out, not only the Vinaya but Buddhism in general is degenerating, including the Tibetan Gelug tradition. I am not the only one who says this, many other Lamas have said the same. Over two hundred years ago a Gelugpa lama called Gungtang Jampelyang wrote a praise to Lama Tsongkhapa in which he said ‘Now, although the Ganden doctrine is increasing materially, its practice is seriously degenerating. This makes me very sad.’ Every year it is degenerating and becoming weaker, while political activities are increasing. This is very sad.

However here in the west we are very fortunate. For us this is not a degenerate but an increasing time. During an increasing time the Dharma is flourishing, it is very easy to gain realizations, and there are many pure practitioners and realized beings. When Buddhadharma first began to flourish there were many realized beings, both Yogis and Yoginis. Then gradually they became less and less common, until now it is very rare to find a pure practitioner.

If we followed the example of the Tibetan tradition, of degenerate times, it would be impossible for us to make any progress. The Dharma itself is of course the same but the presentation and way of practising are different.

For this reason I am always encouraging you to have confidence that you can definitely gain higher realizations and become an enlightened being. I believe this is possible.

(made by KG in his Ordination Talk 1999)

“The ugly, unfortunate result of not understanding pure Dharma and of following misleading teachings that pretend to be pure Dharma is sectarianism. This is one of the greatest hindrances to the flourishing of Dharma, especially in the West. Anything that gives rise to such an evil, destructive mind should be eliminated as quickly and as thoroughly as possible.”

(Clear Light of Bliss, 1982, page 154, The Meditation Handbook)

Mahamudra Claim by his successor Gen Thubten:

“And we can say these days, previously you could find the practice of the Mahamudra outside this Tradition; other Traditions held this practice. But these days we can say definitely it doesn’t exist outside of our Tradition. Only this Tradition holds the lineage, the pure lineage, of the Vajrayana Mahamudra. So this is what we need to preserve, this is what we need to protect. ”

(see Gen Thubten’s speech embedded in this Powerpoint file)

Third Buddha Claim by by his successor Gen Thubten:

“[Geshe Kelsang Gyatso is the] third Buddha, because he has restored the essential purity of Buddha’s doctrine and shown how to practice it in extremely impure times”

(NKT magazine Full Moon, Spring 1995)

In reply on the Third Buddha Claim, also reported by The Guardian, KG said:

“People who are thinking Geshe Kelsang is the Third Buddha is not bad. Maybe they think like this because their pure mind. Because they are happy with me and there is some benefit from spiritual, you know. So maybe they think oh maybe he Buddha. That is nothing wrong [laughs].” ~ K.Gyatso

(see BBC Documantary An Unholy Row)

for more see also the quotes in:
http://buddhism-and-fundamentalism.blogspot.com/

	Tenzin Peljor on The Clear Light of Kelsang Gya…
	Tenpel on Website Invites People to Expl…
	Mike on The Clear Light of Kelsang Gya…
	Vincent Fletcher on The Clear Light of Kelsang Gya…
	Molly on Karmapa Agrees to Multimillion…
	Lena on Karmapa Agrees to Multimillion…
	Lena on Karmapa Agrees to Multimillion…
	tenpel on Karmapa Agrees to Multimillion…

»True Kadampa Truths«

Address to NKT

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