Buddhism, New Kadampa Tradition, Religion

by tenpelDecember 3, 20152:04 pm

Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s »Modern Buddhism« – Who are the Kadampas? – Geshe Tashi clears the distortion of four Kadampa deities

This is part 3 of many to follow. Geshe Tashi Tsering explains what Kadampa is and what the four Kadampa deities are which Kelsang Gyatso distorted, replacing Miyowa with Shugden.
These videos are aimed as an education for the general public particularly for those “supposed Buddhist ordained monks and nuns of the New Kadampa Tradition (NKT)”.

Part One: Geshe Tashi explains Buddhist ordination rite

Part Two: Geshe Tashi challenges NKT Buddhist ordination rite

18Comments

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1

Sam Hoff on December 3, 2015 at 6:07 pm
Reply

Accuracy in the NKT is not required, since it is merely a money making scam.
2

T. wangmo on December 10, 2015 at 6:19 pm
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I believe the NKT uses an form of Rab jam ordination , the five vows from which one has changed into
the promise of celibacy and the three ‘changes’ Dress, life and show renunciation by cutting hair. It may have been added with some advice made into rules. In total 10 Rules to be kept.
It is not like a Shramanera/ Shramaneri or Bhikshu and Bhikshuni ordination.
Geshe la forgets to mention the Dharmagupta line kept intact in China, Korea, Taiwan and Vietnam and Chinese / Vietnamese communities in America and Europe.
This line comes close to the Mularservastinvadin line which was kept in Tibet and part of Nepal.
In the Dharmagupta line the Bhikshuni ordination is alive and given to western women.
Whithout the explicit focus on the eight gurudharma’s. However Geshe la is correct to challenge the NKT style and some issues raised in the NKT.
- 3
  
  tenpel on December 10, 2015 at 10:15 pm
  Reply
  
  Yes, I totally agree with you. This is the result of my investigation too.
  BTW, the activities on this thread and blog respectively have to be seen in context, the issue of ordination and that its been challenged seems to create some unrest in the NKT. Kelsang Rabten released a video as a reply to Geshe Tashi and claims wrongly that the NKT ordination is “the Geshe Potowa ordination”. Well, the fool speaks to the wise … There is no such thing as a Geshe Potowa ordination or an ordination coming from the perfection of Wisdom. Uneducated Westerners think they know it better than the learned because they believe blindly the distortions of Kelsang Gyatso …
  - 4
    
    tenpel on December 10, 2015 at 10:34 pm
    Reply
    
    Upps, NKT are getting busy, “Kelsang Gyatso” (its the voice of Kelsang Rabten) has now answered Geshe Tashi’s explanation about the Four Kadampa Deities. NKT call it a “clarification” but I guess its just a new distortion to former distortions, lies build on lies, deceptions build on misinformation … but see for yourself:
  - 5
    
    maik108 on December 11, 2015 at 9:31 am
    Reply
    
    But Tenpel, to be fair, nowhere in this video is it suggested that they are following Geshe Potowa’s ordination, it says they are following Geshe Potowa’s advice – a big difference. I think the text in this video is very fair and explains their position, irrespective of our opinions about other aspects of the NKT.
    - 6
      
      tenpel on December 11, 2015 at 1:02 pm
      Reply
      
      Thank you for the correction, Maik. Highly appreciated. I didn’t watch it and just used the argument another one made who watched it. ha ha ha, not a good approach! I should restrain to comment when I don’t have time to read or watch what I comment on. A bad road … GKG in his ordination talk speaks of the view or interpretation of Geshe Potowa but claims wrongly that the ordination lineage comes from the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras.
      
      I might comment later after I watched it – if I will ever watch it …
    - 7
      
      NO NAME on December 26, 2016 at 11:27 am
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      whether it is ‘advice’ or not, it is NOT the Vinaya. As Lord Buddha said: “As long as the Vinaya exists……the Buddhas teaching will exist. Without it there is no teaching”
      Dispensing with the Vinaya, even if it is replace by a supposed ideal which exists somewhere [we know not where exactly], is a sign of a degeneration, indeed the end of dharma
      Dont take my word for it-the Buddha said this
8

James on December 26, 2016 at 12:10 am
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How the bloody hell do you regard somebody as both a teacher ‘on the path to hell’ and ‘with respect’? That’s a path to madness if ever their was. How anybody manages this kind of sacred doublethink is a mystery to me.
- 9
  
  tenpel on December 26, 2016 at 12:27 am
  Reply
  
  On the whole blog there is no such phrase as ‘on the path to hell’. What are you referring to?
  - 10
    
    Oblivion Japan on December 26, 2016 at 1:20 pm
    Reply
    
    I’m sure I saw that somewhere. But it seems very aggressive now so just ignore me.
    
    Sent from my iPhone
    
    >
  - 11
    
    Oblivion Japan on December 27, 2016 at 2:45 pm
    Reply
    
    I just worry that you are still in a bigger cult…
    
    Sent from my iPhone
    
    >
    - 12
      
      Adamo on December 27, 2016 at 3:50 pm
      Reply
      
      A cult of “Non-Cultist” ?
13

NO NAME on December 28, 2016 at 11:36 am
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Either this is an assertion that Those working to expose cults and aid survivors are in a cult or Tibetan Buddhism is a cult.
Neither of these is true. The comment is just a meaningless throwaway jibe- probably posted by an inexperienced novice
14

maik108 on February 1, 2017 at 8:43 am
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Hi Tenpel, just came across this, not sure you’ve seen it. It’s an ‘open letter’ on kadampa.org from Steve Cowling discussing events from 2000. No idea why it suddenly appeared now, any thoughts?

http://kadampa.org/2017/01/open-letter
- 15
  
  tenpel on February 1, 2017 at 3:42 pm
  Reply
  
  UPDATED comment
  
  Hi Maik,
  Thank you, we know that already.
  
  Behind the Open Letter might be certain types of power politics.
  
  Possible reasons could be: 1) After NKT lost their leadership, not having a Tibetan, NKT might not only be less attractive to newbies but also own followers might turn their mind to Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche because what he stands for or transmits is seen as their very own lineage. Making clear that in the view of Kelsang Gyatso Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche is no inauthentic and therefore no choice for “pure practitioners” will force NKT followers to abide in the NKT and not to look outside of the NKT for spiritual nourishment or growth. 2) Another reason could be to “disconnect” (NKT secretary Steve Cowing used that term when he expelled an NKT monk who complained about the bad treatment of an elder monk who served the NKT for 30 years) from Tibetans who helped the NKT with the protests or their online campaign against the Dalai Lama. The effect of that Open Letter is divisive to the Shugden community.
  
  Ironically, it was Trijang Rinpoche – Kelsang Gyatso’s “own Root Guru” – who was famous for performing and relying on mo. Trijang Rinpoche also used mo to confirm that a Tulku candidate was the right Tulku of a previous practitioner. So, Kelsang Gyatso is basically also saying his “own Root Guru” relied on unreliable practices. According to KG/NKT logic it follows if the guru erred in one thing, then the whole lineage is erroneous which cannot be. GKG: “If the practice of Dorje Shugden is bad, then definitely we have to say that Trijang Rinpoche is bad, and that all Gelugpa lamas in the Dalai Lama’s own lineage would be bad.”, applying this “logic” to this case it follows, “If the practice of mo is bad, then definitely we have to say that Trijang Rinpoche is bad, and that all Gelugpa lamas in Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s own lineage would be bad.” Now, either Trijang Rinpoche was wrong or GKG was wrong in his stance on mo, it follows the lineage is now erroneous and lost its “essential purity” … But I guess NKT followers will have their own way to ignore or suppress the inconsistencies of these political means and the falsity of GKG’s/NKT’s reasoning.
16

maik108 on February 2, 2017 at 8:25 am
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Hi Tenpel, thanks for your reply. At this stage I would have to agree with you, I see no other reasons for why kadampa.org would suddenly, out of the blue, publish this letter; especially now, during the “peace time”, after the cessation of the ISC.

I have written to them asking what the purpose was in posting the letter. A response is unlikely of course, but should one follow I’ll be happy to share.
- 17
  
  tenpel on February 2, 2017 at 4:10 pm
  Reply
  
  Hi Maik. Thank you for your reply. There might be more politics behind the scenes because though ISC was dissolved, ISBC has been set up. Details see here: http://info-buddhism.com/Western_Shugden_Society_unlocked.html#ISBC
  Regards, t
18

maik108 on February 3, 2017 at 8:45 am
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Hi Tenpel. Interesting, this is the first I heard of that. I knew Brianna Groshon before she was ordained; a very fun & spirited lady who, it appeared to me, became somewhat stern and rigid over the years. Rachel Jeffrey I know about very well; we had a chat with her at an NKT Festival some years ago, questioning her position with regards to the ISC. At the last festival I attended in 2015, she was frequently speaking about the ‘evil Dalai Lama’, the ‘evil CTA’ and the supposed successful defeat thereof by the ISC.

It was more the tone in her voice and her attitude that was alarming; extremely aggressive, superficially confident and with a clear aim to win over NKT-Newbies. I believe she has psychopathic tendencies, then again I have no expertise in that field.

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Part One: Geshe Tashi explains Buddhist ordination rite

Part Two: Geshe Tashi challenges NKT Buddhist ordination rite

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